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Posted by Midnight Mover
- January 03, 2009, 02:21:28 PMQuote from: aero-engineer on January 02, 2009, 10:10:50 PM
This DC-10 Twin discussion should probably be broken off into a seperate thread.
Kevin
aero-engineer
And so it has been done
Posted by aero-engineer
- January 02, 2009, 10:10:50 PMQuote from: robin990 on December 27, 2008, 11:36:03 PM
If i remember correctly Douglas was to go for the twin DC-10 and let Lockheed have the three hole market. Im not sure why that changed.....
There wasn't room for two L-1011 size Aircraft and both companies knew it.....the competition made both programs lose money.
Who knows , the A-300 might have been never born if Douglas did the twin DC-10 had let lockheed have the L-1011 size market.
Both would have made money instead of ruining both companies Airline buisness.
This DC-10 Twin discussion should probably be broken off into a seperate thread.
Regarding #1, in retrospect, that probably would have been the best business strategy once Lockheed gained a foothold.
Regarding #2, Yes, Lockheed and Douglas / MDC knew that both aircraft could not survive. But neither would give up with a 50/50 market share split.
Flawed Douglas market forecasts saw a need for 900 airframes, but the eventual total market share of both Lockheed and MDC numbered 697. The forecast also assumed no competition.
Alledgedly (from the DC old hands) there was a gentleman's agreement between the companies that whoever got the 1st two large orders would win the business and the other would walk away.
MDC signed AA (2/1/1968 - 50 aircraft), Lockheed signed TWA/Eastern/"Air Holdings" (weird) (3/1/1968 - 140 aircraft) , and MDC signed United (4/1/1968 - 60 aircraft). With a almost 50/50 split, neither would back down. (Numbers are orders and future options)
Frankly, MDC would have signed TWA/Eastern/Delta, but Jame S McDonell ("Old Mac") made a tactical error and refused to negotiate on the price. Lockheed undercut the MDC price. In the end, in order to launch the DC-10, MDC had to later negotiate the price to get United anyway! That would have frozen Lockheed right out of competition.
In the end, the DC-10 won with 446 orders whereas there were only 250 L-1011 orders.
Kevin
aero-engineer
Posted by rander
- December 28, 2008, 09:22:52 AMMaybe Airbus might not have gotten of the ground. And there would be fierce compitition in the USA for the commercial aaircraft market.
Posted by robin990
- December 27, 2008, 11:36:03 PMIm familiar with the twin DC-10. It was considered in the late 60s.
If i remember correctly Douglas was to go for the twin DC-10 and let Lockheed have the three hole market. Im not sure why that changed.....
There wasnt room for two L-1011 size Aircraft and both companies knew it.....the competition made
both programs lose money.
Who knows , the A-300 might have been never born if Douglas did the twin DC-10 had let lockheed have the L-1011 size market.
Both would have made money instead of ruining both companies Airline buisness.
If i remember correctly Douglas was to go for the twin DC-10 and let Lockheed have the three hole market. Im not sure why that changed.....
There wasnt room for two L-1011 size Aircraft and both companies knew it.....the competition made
both programs lose money.
Who knows , the A-300 might have been never born if Douglas did the twin DC-10 had let lockheed have the L-1011 size market.
Both would have made money instead of ruining both companies Airline buisness.
Posted by aero-engineer
- December 27, 2008, 10:50:23 PMQuote from: Midnight Mover on December 24, 2008, 05:05:29 PM
We do now, thanks. I looked it up, but never heard of it till now
It was a pretty rough market at the time mind you, but if MDC would have made it, it would have probably stopped the A300 in it's tracks.
Think about that competative advantage for MDC- the B 767 didn't come onboard until the 1980s.
3 holer DC-10s and the DC-10 Twin making up the entire US jet fleet (minus the B 747).
Kevin
aero-engineer
Posted by Midnight Mover
- December 24, 2008, 05:05:29 PMQuote from: aero-engineer on December 23, 2008, 10:57:15 PM
Everyone know about the DC-10 TWIN?
Kevin
aero-engineer
We do now, thanks. I looked it up, but never heard of it till now
Posted by phantomphan1974
- December 24, 2008, 06:26:41 AMQuote from: aero-engineer on December 23, 2008, 10:57:15 PMTWIN??? Not L-1011
Everyone know about the DC-10 TWIN?
Kevin
aero-engineer
Posted by rander
- December 24, 2008, 01:36:53 AMQuote from: aero-engineer on December 23, 2008, 10:57:15 PM
Everyone know about the DC-10 TWIN?
Kevin
aero-engineer
Like the one that crashed in Sioux City on a flight from Denver to Chicago?? or a smaller version of the big tri jet.